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Are white people Jewish?

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  • Are white people Jewish?

    There have been Jewish communities in the United States since colonial times. Early Jewish communities were primarily Sephardi (Jews of Spanish and Portuguese descent), composed of immigrants from Brazil and merchants who settled in cities. Until the 1830s, the Jewish community of Charleston, South Carolina, was the largest in North America. In the late 1800s and the beginning of the 1900s, many Jewish immigrants left from various nations to enter the U.S. as part of the general rise of immigration movements. For example, many German Jews arrived in the middle of the 19th century, established clothing stores in towns across the country, formed Reform synagogues, and were active in banking in New York. Immigration of Eastern Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews, in 1880–1914, brought a large, poor, traditional element to New York City. They were Orthodox or Conservative in religion. They founded the Zionist movement in the United States, and were active supporters of the Socialist party and labor unions. Economically, they concentrated in the garment industry.

    Refugees arrived from diaspora communities in Europe after World War II and, after 1970, from the Soviet Union. Politically, American Jews have been especially active as part of the liberal New Deal coalition of the Democratic Party since the 1930s, although recently there is a conservative Republican element among the Orthodox. They have displayed high education levels, and high rates of upward social mobility. The Jewish communities in small towns have declined, with the population becoming increasingly concentrated in large metropolitan areas.

    In the 1940s, Jews comprised 3.7% of the national population. As of 2019, at about 7.1 million,[1] the population is 2% of the national total—and shrinking as a result of low birth rates and Jewish assimilation.[2] The largest Jewish population centers are the metropolitan areas of New York (2.1 million), Los Angeles (617,000), Miami (527,750), Washington, D.C. (297,290), Chicago (294,280) and Philadelphia (292,450).[3]

    Jacob Schiff played a major role as a leader of the American Jewish community in the late 19th century. As a wealthy German Jew, Schiff made important decisions regarding the arrival of Eastern European Jewish immigrants. At a time of increasing demand for immigration restriction, Schiff supported and worked for Jewish Americanization. A Reform Jew, he backed the creation of the Conservative Jewish Theological Seminary of America. He took a stand favoring a modified form of Zionism, reversing his earlier opposition. Above all, Schiff believed that American Jewry could live in both the Jewish and American worlds, creating a balance that made possible an enduring American Jewish community.[62]

    The National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW), founded in Chicago in 1893, had the goals of philanthropy and the Americanization of Jewish immigrants. Responding to the plight of Jewish women and girls from Eastern Europe, the NCJW created its Department of Immigrant Aid to assist and protect female immigrants from the time of their arrival at Ellis Island until their settlement at their final destination. The NCJW's Americanization program included assisting immigrants with housing, health, and employment problems, leading them to organizations where women could begin to socialize, and conducting English classes while helping them maintain a strong Jewish identity. The council, pluralistic rather than conformist, continued its Americanization efforts and fought against restrictive immigration laws after World War I. At the forefront of its activities was the religious education of Jewish girls, who were ignored by the Orthodox community.[63]
    Last edited by 400years; 05-27-2021, 09:18 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by TheHarmattan
    Short answer is yes and no.

    Yes, because anyone can convert to Judaism.
    No, because white people are not Semitic.
    THIS.

    Here are some references also to support that.The first 5 of these are professed "Jewish" men, bearing witness to this fact that TheHarmattan shared. The 2 videos after that are so-called White men, doing the same. Some of these are testimonies, others go into the history. And the last is a brief History on the Khazars, who the Ashkenazi Jewish descend from, and their original conversion to Judaism in the 7th century. The Ashkenazi Jewish converts were in Spain and Portugal during the late middle ages along with the Yahudim ("Jews"/"Negros"), who were later exiled from the Iberian Peninsula or sent into slavery, to Portuguese colonies (in Africa and Brazil), due to the expulsion edicts.

    (Christoper Columbus is said to have been Jewish (by faith). Due to the Inquisition declaring heresy on all non Catholics, he converted to Christianity, becoming a "New Christian," but, practiced Judaism in secret, as it's told.) As you share in your OP 400years, the "Jewish" were also a part of American Colonial history. (And they also made up a significant portion of the slave owners during the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade, engaging in multiple facets of the trade. Whom were they trading? They were trading the descendants of the Yahudim ("Jews"/"Negros") that were exiled from the Iberian Peninsula or sent into slavery, to Portuguese colonies (in Africa and Brazil), due to the expulsion edicts. This thing is deep).



    Cepher Rep Tells Truth about the Tribe of Judah in America
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNN8Kco5WgE

    Benjamin H. Freedman speech 1961 [UNEDITED VERSION!] (You will learn about the history of the German Jewish and Zionism in this one.)
    https://www.altcensored.com/watch?v=bk3EWnL10dI


    White Jewish Man Confesses BLACKS ARE THE ORIGINAL JEWS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXIAorxXhWI

    JEWISH MAN IN ISRAEL SAYING THE AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE THE REAL JEWS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0HRD4TacP0

    Rabbi Harry Rosenberg - Black People Are The 12 Tribes of Israel !!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbYZozeIWV8


    Black Hebrew Slaves on Jewish Slave Ships
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6UAWPa4fRQ

    The TRUE Hebrew Israelites defined by Scripture and history. WARNING you will be shocked!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEDfrBBPZzg


    Khazars: History of the Jewish Turkic Nomads (Ashkenazi Jewish descend from this tribe)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr2CtmpKU6A
    Last edited by Yakuba; 05-27-2021, 10:16 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think we all know the answer to this
      Yes & No
      What Harmattan said

      My question: is the question of jew ethnicity relevant to the Advancement of Black Men?

      Comment


      • #4
        Yall must not being seeing the bigger picture because the most common white name in the world is JAMES and JAMES comee from JOSEPH which was originally a Hebrew name. If whites are not all descendants of jews then why is it that they all have so many items which all come back to Israel? Why was Jesus Christ Jewish? And why are most people in the bible from JERUSALEM? Why do names like MIKE come from the name MICHEAL which of course is Hebrew? For what reason did they spread Christianity across the world if not for the sake of converting and controlling people through a Jewish religion? Of all the places in the world how convenient is it that ISREAL is called the Holy Land in the bible Despite their being places in Africa that have alot more significance?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheHarmattan

          In Spain and Portugal, they were Sephardic Jews. Ashkenazi Jews were in Germany.
          I understand your point. And in America, they are "American Jews" and in Israel, "Israeli," etc. If we are simply speaking of locales and modern accepted designations, I agree, that is what they call themselves. In terms of lineage, it does not go back nearly as far in the region of Spain and Portugal as the exiles from the end of Israel's 1st temple period, who had been there since B.C. times. THEY were known as Sephardim. Hence, I don't ascribe that title of Sephardim to the Jewish converts, whose lineage is primarily Eastern European. In the same way I don't regard Native Americans as "Indians." (Nor do they regard themselves as such. Those are two different peoples with distinct lineages) Hence, I use the term Ashkenazi Jewish or Khazar Jewish in this case, and not Sephardic.
          Last edited by Yakuba; 05-27-2021, 02:08 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 400years View Post
            Yall must not being seeing the bigger picture because the most common white name in the world is JAMES and JAMES comee from JOSEPH which was originally a Hebrew name. If whites are not all descendants of jews then why is it that they all have so many items which all come back to Israel? Why was Jesus Christ Jewish? And why are most people in the bible from JERUSALEM? Why do names like MIKE come from the name MICHEAL which of course is Hebrew? For what reason did they spread Christianity across the world if not for the sake of converting and controlling people through a Jewish religion? Of all the places in the world how convenient is it that ISREAL is called the Holy Land in the bible Despite their being places in Africa that have alot more significance?
            Interesting questions, which ALL have answers. I've had similar questions myself. These are answers you will appreciate more if you study it out yourself, prayerfully and in sincerity. While I could go through it point by point, here, that's already been done in an easy to follow format, which you would be able to take your time and go through it. And you can reach out to the author and ask questions or speak with others in the comments with similar questions as yours. Many of us are asking the same questions, and finding answers within our own Diaspora community, and through submission and prayer to our Power, YAH.

            HISTORY OF RELIGION series by Truthunedited (this brother has done excellent research, and his presentation format is very easy to follow. )
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdsJ...JAZYXfuF1f5H9Q

            Truthunedited's Website: https://truthunedited.com/

            Also, there are several other resources in this thread.

            https://www.blackmenszone.com/forum/...outube-channel








            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TheHarmattan

              Eastern European Jews are called Hasidic Jews.

              Interesting, nonetheless...
              Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. That is what they call themselves. They are Euro-Gentile converts to the Rabbinical traditions of the Yahudim, in reality. Some of them who are honest, have admitted that.
              Last edited by Yakuba; 05-27-2021, 07:06 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Baba Ras View Post
                I think we all know the answer to this
                Yes & No
                What Harmattan said

                My question: is the question of jew ethnicity relevant to the Advancement of Black Men?

                "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots." - Marcus Garvey


                When you have an understanding beyond the narrative your oppressors have given you your entire life, it then becomes relevant. Also, it depends on what "Advancement" means to a person. I certainly don't have to explain the importance of a cultural identity, and how that affects the advancement of a people. Some are satisfied identifying themselves as a color or 2 continents. And that's fine for them.

                Others recognize that something important was taken, and it's time to search it out exhaustively, reclaim it, walk in it, and find our way back to the source of who we are as a nation/people....our Power/Elohim....or die tryin'. Given there's a significant amount of re-emerging historical evidence identifying that so-called Black people were primarily shipped from regions where large numbers of people at some point identified ethnically as Yahudim ("Jews") and/or were identified as Yahudim ("Jews") by even their would be oppressors, is enough to put it on the table for consideration.

                Revised Euro-centric history tells us our ancestors were nothing but slaves, and before that savages. The actual history reveals that our people prior to slavery were nation builders, with high morals, advanced culture, and theology, who in actuality brought several advancements to other nations they were in. You can see how this is possible, just with the history of our people in the U.S. and their countless inventions, despite being set back by slavery and Jim Crow, having their patents stolen or not honored, etc.

                This then gives some answers to the questions of why a specific people were taken to build this nation and others, and why there is a particular people parading around claiming said heritage, and being given untold millions to maintain the charade. One reason that is possible, is that many of our people don't see the value of finding, reclaiming and walking in their true heritage. The scriptures also foretold this would happen to the Israelites. Those who have a spirit to receive it, can appreciate the parallels, and recognize these prophecies were not fulfilled by the Converts.

                "And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger which shall burn forever.” - Jeremiah 17:4

                In any case, the information is readily available for those to review it or not, even to contribute to it, if the Spirit moves them, and choose what path to "Advancement" their spirit leads them to. This is a spiritual journey, whatever path we choose, and about worship, whether we understand that or not.


                "But if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve YAHUWAH, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served, which were beyond the Euphrates River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YAHUWAH.” - Joshua 24:15



                "Black History Who Am I Biblically"
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkDsE-uAyPA
                Last edited by Yakuba; 05-29-2021, 12:05 AM.

                Comment


                • Baba Ras
                  Baba Ras commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Bro, i counsel you to be cautious making assumptions on a persons Cultural & historical awareness because of a single question.
                  And while you may think or believe that said question would infer or imply a level of knowledge or an amount of study or lack thereof, i would expect a learned man such as yourself to know well that perspective typically carries more consequence than the Knowledge or Consciousness itself.
                  Ive pored over "From Babylon to Timbuktu" and listened to Rudolph Windsor make a historical case for "Black" Hebrews & "African" Jews.
                  Ive studied Ashkenazis & Kazars
                  Ive heard lectures from Hebrew Isrealites who tout the prophecies of a book commissioned by an English King and his Rosicrucian subjects.
                  And i am a Servant of the Holy Spirit.
                  So while i may not be the most learned man in the forum, i certainly have enough awareness to weigh in on the topic.
                  And i stand by my question

                  Although i should tailor it for you because you clearly missed my point.
                  "Is the ethnicity of euro/caucasoid men claiming a religion relevant to the Advancement of Original People???
                  My answer would be No.

                  Damn their ethnicity or beliefs. They are enemies of God, Gods people & the Land God gave to the People and thats all that matters. We distract ourselves debating about the nuances of their stolen identities, concocted ethnicities and divisive nationalities.
                  The only ethnic backgrounds that should matter to Us is Ours.

                  Now on the matter of Original Jew or Hebrew heritage as it relates to Us? You are right, reclaiming Our Identity and Culture is essential to our Advancement. When i read "The Philosophy & Opinions of Marcus Garvey" that very quote spoke loud to me because i am a Man who takes "Roots" very serious.

                  Now let me tell you where you are wrong.
                  You and many others with your view are wrong because you continually attempt to override the Divine Plan by cramming all the worlds Original People into a single tribe. Something the Creator never even did. Diversity and Individuality are distinct phenomenon of Creation, proving that these principles are at the essence of Creators intentions. Meaning there is a multitude of "Black" tribes on this Earth and that is the way it supposed to be.
                  I find it very strange that "Hebrews & Jews" today can read bible stories depicting Isrealites nomad'n amongst dozens of "Black" & "Asiatic" tribes in a small region of the World, yet somehow today all Africans and Asians descended form that single tribe of Isreal. A tribe that wasnt even a singularity of melanin in its own time! So how in the world does it make sense to say all "Black" people today are the "true isrealites"?
                  Its simply not logical.
                  There were a multitude of Melanated Trbes in the Ancient World and there are still a.multitude of Us today.
                  And any attempts to force or shame everyone into an alternative reality only compounds on the issues we face from the fake jews.
                  I could point out the same quaking bass of logic to the Moors with their similar talking point.
                  Theres no way we can all be Moors or Jews or Kamites or any other ethnic group. And we dont have to be. Continuing down that path will only keep us form the necessary goal of returning to what we actually all were.
                  And that was a like-minded People who all lived by and honored the Natural & Divine Laws of the Creator, wherever we were on the Earth.
                  All those parts in the Bible that claim otherwise are the "Revised euro-centric history" you mentioned.
                  We're all the "True Hueman Beings" made in the likeness of the Creator.
                  Thats the essence of getting back to our Roots.
                  Not a name or a title or invented traditions or mythologies.
                  Its the Consciousness. The Essence.
                  Because ultimately, the "Root" of Gods People can only be God.

                  Thanks for listening.

                • Yakuba
                  Yakuba commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Shalom/Salama. I appreciate the clarification on your purpose for the question you posed, and further comments on your views. However, any question asked in sincerity, does not require caution or concern of any consequences beyond the edification to be gained. Hence, I don’t feel the need to hesitate to give an honest response, if I choose to take it as such--particularly, on a platform whose aim is to generate sincere and honest dialogue, about topics affecting so-called Black men.

                  Quite frankly, I don’t know what people believe or what they have read or studied until they share that, as you have in your eloquent response here. When I answer questions on any such topic, I do so with consideration of my own experience, and where I have been in my journey, as well as an understanding of where many people may be in theirs.

                  I don’t simply give an answer to show how “learned” I am, or to infer a level of understanding someone may or may not have. Like many others in our community who are sincerely seeking answers and solutions, I am learning along with everyone else. And I am sharing what I have learned so that others can learn. Hence, I attempt to be as thorough as possible in my responses to any question, and leave references, etc., if I can. Now a debate is a different method of doing the same thing, but more ego driven. And that was not my purpose for addressing the questions posed.

                  Based on the view count vs the post count, clearly, we have more viewers than participants in these threads, at this point. So, a topic posted, an answer to a question posed, a reference shared within a post could be just the reference someone searching for answers could use to further their understanding, or they may discover a new path of research they hadn’t considered. So, it is not personal.

                  The OP posed a question, which looked to be a follow-up to the conversation he and I were having about the Hebrew Israelite, and more specifically, Yahudi (“Jew”), heritage of many so-called Black people, in his prior thread. The fact that he followed up that conversation with this thread, shows that the topic is relevant to our experience and advancement as Black men. As it can be difficult to advance, without an understanding of one’s roots. And there is fair amount of confusion around this topic. So, while I respect your overall view, I disagree that it is not relevant.

                  It is not that a religion is being claimed. This is not about religion. It is that a heritage and identity is being claimed (stolen), and with said heritage and identity an inheritance and a legacy. Now, ultimately, the Creator will resolve the issue, as He says in His Word, delivered by the Prophets. But, not before His people understand fully what they have lost, why they have lost it, how they lost it, who has it, and what is needed to reclaim it. Thus, this would lead one searching to surmise our present shared and unsavory condition, has an end in sight, a path to redemption and reconciliation…through repentance, submission and faith in the Creator, and not in our power to do anything of our own design. Because nothing we have tried has worked so far to accomplish that end. Thus, my response to your question still stands.

                  And, for the record, not all Hebrew Israelites believe the same thing. But there is a common reverence in the Hebrew Israelite community for the Creator’s standard--His divine laws, wisdom, will--and His plan, to restore peace, harmony and justice on this earth, as expressed in the Hebrew Scriptures, and a shared desire to grow in the Spirit of that, and apply it to our lives. "Nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of Elohim is within you.” - Luke 17:21

                  I agree “From Babylon to Timbuktu” by Rudolph Windsor is an excellent reference. And it has helped to clear a path and introduce a methodology to this research and has given further context as to the identity of the People of Scripture, and world history in general. I’ve also shared several references from others, who in turn share several references in their videos, etc. to help our people put the pieces back together from our shattered past, which stretches across this planet.

                  Obviously, this information may not appeal to all melanated people, or their view of the world, as we are not all the same. But it will reach those whom it is meant to, those with a spirit to receive it. And it will continue to be shared, as the Spirit leads.

                  The curious case of who so-called Black people are, in terms of an identity, is a major problem, and not just for our people, for other ethnic groups as well. As a group of people, we are operating in this world without a clear standard of how to survive in it.

                  “The purpose of studying history is to solve problems.” — Neely Fuller, Jr.

                  -Blessings.
                  Last edited by Yakuba; 05-30-2021, 09:42 AM.

              • #9
                Originally posted by 400years View Post
                There have been Jewish communities in the United States since colonial times. Early Jewish communities were primarily Sephardi (Jews of Spanish and Portuguese descent), composed of immigrants from Brazil and merchants who settled in cities. Until the 1830s, the Jewish community of Charleston, South Carolina, was the largest in North America. In the late 1800s and the beginning of the 1900s, many Jewish immigrants left from various nations to enter the U.S. as part of the general rise of immigration movements. For example, many German Jews arrived in the middle of the 19th century, established clothing stores in towns across the country, formed Reform synagogues, and were active in banking in New York. Immigration of Eastern Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews, in 1880–1914, brought a large, poor, traditional element to New York City. They were Orthodox or Conservative in religion. They founded the Zionist movement in the United States, and were active supporters of the Socialist party and labor unions. Economically, they concentrated in the garment industry.

                Refugees arrived from diaspora communities in Europe after World War II and, after 1970, from the Soviet Union. Politically, American Jews have been especially active as part of the liberal New Deal coalition of the Democratic Party since the 1930s, although recently there is a conservative Republican element among the Orthodox. They have displayed high education levels, and high rates of upward social mobility. The Jewish communities in small towns have declined, with the population becoming increasingly concentrated in large metropolitan areas.

                In the 1940s, Jews comprised 3.7% of the national population. As of 2019, at about 7.1 million,[1] the population is 2% of the national total—and shrinking as a result of low birth rates and Jewish assimilation.[2] The largest Jewish population centers are the metropolitan areas of New York (2.1 million), Los Angeles (617,000), Miami (527,750), Washington, D.C. (297,290), Chicago (294,280) and Philadelphia (292,450).[3]

                Jacob Schiff played a major role as a leader of the American Jewish community in the late 19th century. As a wealthy German Jew, Schiff made important decisions regarding the arrival of Eastern European Jewish immigrants. At a time of increasing demand for immigration restriction, Schiff supported and worked for Jewish Americanization. A Reform Jew, he backed the creation of the Conservative Jewish Theological Seminary of America. He took a stand favoring a modified form of Zionism, reversing his earlier opposition. Above all, Schiff believed that American Jewry could live in both the Jewish and American worlds, creating a balance that made possible an enduring American Jewish community.[62]

                The National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW), founded in Chicago in 1893, had the goals of philanthropy and the Americanization of Jewish immigrants. Responding to the plight of Jewish women and girls from Eastern Europe, the NCJW created its Department of Immigrant Aid to assist and protect female immigrants from the time of their arrival at Ellis Island until their settlement at their final destination. The NCJW's Americanization program included assisting immigrants with housing, health, and employment problems, leading them to organizations where women could begin to socialize, and conducting English classes while helping them maintain a strong Jewish identity. The council, pluralistic rather than conformist, continued its Americanization efforts and fought against restrictive immigration laws after World War I. At the forefront of its activities was the religious education of Jewish girls, who were ignored by the Orthodox community.[63]
                Can you please reference your post next time?

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by TheHarmattan
                  Short answer is yes and no.

                  Yes, because anyone can convert to Judaism.
                  No, because white people are not Semitic.
                  Judaism is more complex than that. Even if you convert and someone makes an anti-Semitic slur even though you are not of the Semitic people in that region the fact that you are Jewish through conversion by proxy you're of the Semitic culture because you're in a Semitic religion.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Yakuba View Post

                    Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. That is what they call themselves. They are Euro-Gentile converts to the Rabbinical traditions of the Yahudim, in reality. Some of them who are honest, have admitted that.
                    They're not all converts where did you get that? You do realize you have generations of born Jews (remember they trace it matrilineally) not sure how you would designate a "born Jew" as a convert.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Yautja View Post

                      They're not all converts where did you get that? You do realize you have generations of born Jews (remember they trace it matrilineally) not sure how you would designate a "born Jew" as a convert.
                      The Hebrew Scriptures should be the authority. The Israelites of the Bible observed paternal heritage, not maternal, for reckoning genealogies. That is based on the Torah and Prophets, which the Jewish claim to follow. One example is the case of YHWH commanding Moses to take a census of the people of Israel, according to the paternal lineage. Another example is the case of Timothy, whom Paul converted. Timothy had a Greek (Gentile) father and Yahudi ("Jew") mother, and Paul decided it was best to have Timothy circumcised, to not offend the Yahudim ("Jews") he would be ministering to. Still another example is in the Book of Ezra, when many of the Yahudim ("Jews") returned to Israel from Babylonian exile to rebuild the temple. A census was taken, based on the paternal lineage. The one exception that has led to controversy historically is the genealogy of the Messiah Yahushua ("Jesus"). And because genealogy was normally reckoned patrilineally, by the Israelites, it led to many disputes about Matthew's and Luke's accounts, regarding the Messiah's royal lineage. The point is matrilineal genealogy is not based on the traditions of the original Hebrews. So, yes, I call them converts.

                      “Take a census of all the congregation of the children of Israel, by their families, by their fathers’ houses, according to the number of names, every male individually," Numbers 1:2

                      "Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived,
                      whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. 2 The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3 Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek." - Acts 16:3

                      "Now these were the people of the province who came up out of the captivity of those exiles whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried captive to Babylonia. They returned to Jerusalem and Judah, each to his own town. 2 They came with Zerubbabel, Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum, and Baanah. The number of the men of the people of Israel: 3 the sons of Parosh, 2,172. 4 The sons of Shephatiah, 372. 5 The sons of Arah, 775. 6 The sons of Pahath-moab, namely the sons of Jeshua and Joab, 2,812....." - Ezra 2:1-70
                      Last edited by Yakuba; 05-28-2021, 05:40 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Yakuba View Post

                        The Hebrew Scriptures should be the authority. The Israelites of the Bible observed paternal heritage, not maternal, for reckoning genealogies.
                        For the record I'm not an expert in Judaism nor am I an authoritative figure of what is and isn't for Judaism. I am not sure if you have rabbinical training or are a Jew I hope we can be careful and not make our own interpretations of Judaic text and law.

                        This is according to the My Jewish Learning website:

                        "According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

                        But why does traditional Jewish law favor matrilineal descent?

                        Some people say that Judaism goes by matrilineal descent because we always know who a person’s mother is and we don’t always know who a person’s father is. However, a person’s status as a priest, Levite, or Israelite is passed down from the father, and such distinctions were of utmost importance in biblical and Rabbinic times (and still, to a certain degree, today). If priesthood can be passed down via one’s father, why not Jewish identity?

                        Shaye D. Cohen, the Littauer Professor of Hebrew Literature and Philosophy at Harvard University, has written a book and several articles on this issue specifically. Cohen found that matrilineal descent evolved from an original policy of patrilineal descent. In the Torah , a person’s status as a Jew seems to come from his father. Joseph was married to a non-Jewish woman, and his children were considered Jewish. The same was the case for Moses and King Solomon. The change to a policy of matrilineal descent came in late antiquity.

                        Cohen has two theories about how this came to be. One is that the Tannaim, the rabbis who codified the concept of matrilineal descent, were influenced by the Roman legal system of the time. According to two sources from the end of the second century CE and the beginning of the third century CE, in a marriage between two Romans, a child would receive the status of his father. In an intermarriage between a Roman and a non-Roman, a child received the citizenship status of its mother.

                        Cohen’s other theory is that the Tannaim developed matrilineal descent from an already existing conclusion about mixed breeding in the animal kingdom. The Torah prohibits the breeding of animals of different species, but there is an opinion in the Mishnah (Kilayim 8:4) that suggests that a mule whose mother was a horse and whose father was a donkey should be allowed to mate with other horses. This implies that “horse-hood” is passed down through the mother, regardless of the father’s species. This concept may have been extrapolated by the rabbis to operate beyond the animal kingdom. Cohen presents both theories, but admits that neither have been conclusively proven."

                        See Reference:https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...ineal-descent/





                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Yautja View Post

                          For the record I'm not an expert in Judaism nor am I an authoritative figure of what is and isn't for Judaism. I am not sure if you have rabbinical training or are a Jew I hope we can be careful and not make our own interpretations of Judaic text and law.

                          This is according to the My Jewish Learning website:

                          "According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

                          But why does traditional Jewish law favor matrilineal descent?

                          Some people say that Judaism goes by matrilineal descent because we always know who a person’s mother is and we don’t always know who a person’s father is. However, a person’s status as a priest, Levite, or Israelite is passed down from the father, and such distinctions were of utmost importance in biblical and Rabbinic times (and still, to a certain degree, today). If priesthood can be passed down via one’s father, why not Jewish identity?

                          Shaye D. Cohen, the Littauer Professor of Hebrew Literature and Philosophy at Harvard University, has written a book and several articles on this issue specifically. Cohen found that matrilineal descent evolved from an original policy of patrilineal descent. In the Torah , a person’s status as a Jew seems to come from his father. Joseph was married to a non-Jewish woman, and his children were considered Jewish. The same was the case for Moses and King Solomon. The change to a policy of matrilineal descent came in late antiquity.

                          Cohen has two theories about how this came to be. One is that the Tannaim, the rabbis who codified the concept of matrilineal descent, were influenced by the Roman legal system of the time. According to two sources from the end of the second century CE and the beginning of the third century CE, in a marriage between two Romans, a child would receive the status of his father. In an intermarriage between a Roman and a non-Roman, a child received the citizenship status of its mother.

                          Cohen’s other theory is that the Tannaim developed matrilineal descent from an already existing conclusion about mixed breeding in the animal kingdom. The Torah prohibits the breeding of animals of different species, but there is an opinion in the Mishnah (Kilayim 8:4) that suggests that a mule whose mother was a horse and whose father was a donkey should be allowed to mate with other horses. This implies that “horse-hood” is passed down through the mother, regardless of the father’s species. This concept may have been extrapolated by the rabbis to operate beyond the animal kingdom. Cohen presents both theories, but admits that neither have been conclusively proven."

                          See Reference:https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...ineal-descent/


                          Thanks for sharing that detailed explanation on the reasoning of their doctrine around matrilineal descent. I'm not a trained Rabbi, or seeking to be one. I stick with the Bible (Hebrew Scriptures) for my insight into the Creator's divine will, law, wisdom, prophecy and the history of His people, the Israelites, as well as the teachings of the Adonai Yahushua Ha Mashiach. The Talmud, Mishnah and similar writings I might refer to, to gain some historical context. But, they do not take precedence over the Hebrew Scriptures. I will say, what you shared convinces me even further that the Jewish do not observe Torah as YHWH instructed His people to do. "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of YHWH your EL that I command you." - Deuteronomy 4:2

                          Matrilineal descent is not what the Torah and the Prophets teach. Therefore, those of Gentile heritage with Jewish faith are converts to the Rabbinical/Pharisaical traditions of the Yahudim ("Jews"). And when they profess to be the bloodline descendants of the Yahudim ("Jews") of the Hebrew Scriptures, with a divine right to the Holy Land of Israel, they are perpetuating a lie. The history and the scriptures themselves prove this is a false claim, and instead lend themselves to the idea that the so-called Black ("Negro"/"Afro") peoples of the Diaspora across the world, as well as multiple tribes on the African continent, are the people to whom the scriptures are referring.

                          What the Bible teaches is for anyone seeking an understanding of adherence to YAH's commandments (Torah) given to the Israelites, by Moshe, His prophetic word delivered by the Prophets, the History and Writings of the Israelites, and what Yahushua and the Apostles taught as "The Way" for both Israelite and Non-Israelite people to come into covenant with The Most High Power, YAHUWAH, through repentance from sin, and faith in the sacrifice, resurrection, and mediation by Yahushua Ha Mashiach. It is not a religion.

                          Roman Christianity, like Judaism, has created a doctrine that does not align with the Creator's will, as revealed in the Hebrew Scriptures, and incorporates a great deal of disguised paganism, as well as traditions and opinions of men. "Therefore YHWH said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths And honor Me with their lips, But have removed their hearts far from Me, And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men.." Isaiah 29:14
                          Last edited by Yakuba; 05-29-2021, 10:59 PM.

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                          • #15
                            Originally posted by TheHarmattan

                            My post started off with: "The short answer..."

                            So, then your response was to tell me that I didn't explain the complexities sufficiently?

                            How does that work? Really?
                            Well, you said yes and no. I meant no offense. But you said white people are not Semitic. Technically this is true genealogically however because you and I are not geneticists we cannot indefinitely say all whites do not have a Semitic descent. In addition, I mentioned about even a converted Jew by proxy of being a member of the Jewish faith can still be considered Semitic culturally even if not genealogically. I'll use my uncle for example. He left his baptist Christian faith and converted to Judaism because the German woman he married was Jewish. If I one day came up to him and called him a "dirty Jew" he will respond by saying I'm "anti-Semitic." Now my uncle is African-American, nowhere near being related to any of the Semitic people of that region, however, because he is Jewish and immersed in Jewish cultures and their customs he takes upon himself also pejoratives aimed at towards Jews. This is essentially my point.
                            Last edited by Yautja; 05-28-2021, 07:14 PM.

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