Reparations: Why we aren't getting it and why we need to stop trying to get it.

[Yautja]

I've received a lot of hate from some of my fellow brothers and sisters of the ADOS community regarding my opposition to the potential legislation of receiving reparations. As much as I've tried to have a dialogue, nobody coherently, and patiently has laid out issues I've had regarding receiving reparations, especially for slavery. The following is my opinion and by no means do my views reflect the views of other black folks. I realize that my view is an outlier however, the ADOS movement has no convinced me how this could work.

Why reparations don't work

1) The program of reparations will expand to other groups.

According to an article written by the Atlantic, any program of reparations would be extended to other groups for example if African-Americans are getting paid for the brutal subjugation and the horror of systemic racism thereafter then what is stopping the Native Americans? (Don't use casinos as all tribal members are not taking advantage of that in addition reparations could leave a way for Native Americans to push further payment for past atrocities). This would also include Mexicans who were displaced after the Mexican-American War as well as Japanese (who actually received reparations from that.

2) The question of who qualifies will be problematic

I've brought this issue up to many people who subscribe to ADOS ideology. In seeing who qualifies for reparations are we going by the "one-drop rule?" Are we tracing ancestral DNA through matrilineal descent? If in fact, we subscribe to the one-drop rule then you leave open many people of biracial or even triracial descent. This will also open up Pandora's box to the problem of "who is black enough to be a descendent of a slave?" Not to mention even if we could feasibly genetically test all 44-45 million blacks in the United States it would create a back log full of researchers trying to connect the dots of people who may or may not have an ancestral link to early African slaves.

3) Side effects of reparations would cause problems

As was said in the Atlantic article:

"If paid to individuals as an income stream, reparations would dis-incentivize work.

If paid to individuals as a lump sum, reparations would expose one of America’s least financially sophisticated populations to predatory practices that would make subprime lending seem socially responsible by contrast" (The Atlantic, n.d.)

4) If you're going to dish out the payment will we all get the same as individuals or will we get the same per family? How do we measure payment adjustments based on the number of a person's family and do we dictate payment based on the number of people in an individual's family? If such occurs where payment would fluctuate and based on one's family size then some will be excluded.

5) To prevent issues of economic equity, payments might be distributed collectively to the group rather than individuals

If such action were to occur, then the question would arise as to who decides how any and all monies are distributed? Like the state of Israel who received reparations from the Germans, and because we black Americans do not have a state of our own like Israel, we would have to ask if such were the case who is accountable to whom if this was a collective payout?

At the end of the day for me, there is no monetary compensation for what my ancestors went through, subsequent to them my grandparents, parents, and myself. Reparations will not cure the unhealthy habits we have in our community such as obesity, heart disease, cancer, drug usage, alcoholism, and a host of other issues. ADOS doesn't address this and seeks to simply look at immediate gratification.

Reference: The Atlantic (n.d.). The impossibility of Reparations Considering the single most important question about racial restitution: How would it work?. Retrieved from https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ations/372041/

[GreenJagWar]

Problem 1 If the argument that beginning reparations for ADOS will open up space for claims from others then why doesn't that argument stop ALL reparations claims? Also, why should I care if my reparations claim is also used for other claims? That is not my business. ALL people who experienced discrimination by the government DESERVE reparations. Deserve to have their problems acknowledged and the relationship repaired in every way possible. Its pure eurocentricism to place American society as something to keep.

Problem 2 For who? Blood is a good start. But once again, this is not a problem WE Should have to answer for. It is only because we are ADOS that these "issues" come up. But you are completely convinced by them...Are you Black or American first? I have my own idea's of who should get money. But there are many different ways to make this clear and fair, not to mention as if the need for a complete perfect plan has ever stopped previous legislation or financial aid, its more BS to avoid doing the correct thing.

Problem 3 Holy Hell. Disincentivize work? We aren't even allowed to work. There is obvious and inherent issues in the American job market and surprise they match many of the same racists stereotypes as always. Why are you ignoring the still present reality of modern discrimination and racism against ADOS to make this argument?

Problem 4 Once again, I have my own idea's but this is not an issue that would prevent this legislation from being written and argued and voted on. These questions are for after its voted on.

Problem 5 A general payment is preferred. I don't trust white people's decision on where the money should go. They already have control of the money reparations gives us that control.

I used to agree with this idea, much like William Darity jr. who wrote From Here to Equality, a through book outlining what reparations could look like modern day. He once thought reparations were useless but after taking the idea seriously he now finds a necessity in the walk for reparations. I think you may find it useful for getting a full picture.

[Yautja]

For one thank you for being brave enough to come to the topic. I thought my brothers would join in but I guess this is not interesting enough...

For my rebuttal, I'm going to go point by point

You: If the argument that beginning reparations for ADOS will open up space for claims from others then why doesn't that argument stop ALL reparations claims?

First, because it hasn't. Because we ourselves point to the monetary kickbacks of others like the Jews and Japanese and Native Americans which means that if we complain about getting our due and if we do, what is stopping others from getting theirs? Also, the United States government, not the people has to admit wrongdoing. Slavery was abolished and many lawmakers will use legal loopholes to not give blacks reparations because this will make the U.S. government culpable, but hypothetically speaking, it would take less money to pay Native Americans and Japanese than it will for black Americans.

You: Also, why should I care if my reparations claim is also used for other claims?

Because like any legislation all things must be considered. This is money we are talking about. If I give you $100 just because you are black in front of Mexicans and Chinese people in our circle they'll want to know why I'm giving you money because we are black. In that case, they'll ask me to, and if I consider their complaint prior to me giving you money I'll be hesitant to want to give you anything based on the potential issue. Also, in relation to the topic, legally, we have to prove the U.S. government is culpable.

You: ALL people who experienced discrimination by the government DESERVE reparations. Deserve to have their problems acknowledged and the relationship repaired in every way possible. It's pure eurocentrism to place American society as something to keep.

That means the Irish can make their claims as well as others. The government will not play oppression Olympics because legally that would be a nightmare. You would have to show the United States government, not colonies is culpable. ADOS has not created a legal argument to show that.


You: For who? Blood is a good start. But once again, this is not a problem WE Should have to answer for. It is only because we are ADOS that these "issues" come up. But you are completely convinced by them...Are you Black or American first?

This is the frustration I've had with those who argue for reparations even in person because they question my blackness. Just because I challenge this doesn't mean my blackness is in question. As a people, we ought to question things not have a herd mentality. 'm very much black, and very much offended but that is to be expected of ignorance among our people. When I bring up genetics your very question of my blackness will be an issue for others regarding reparations. Oh, I get money because genetically it is found that my lineage comes from this slave but this biracial woman doesn't get anything because she is biracial. Who decides that? You? Me?

You: Holy Hell. Disincentivize work? We aren't even allowed to work.

Jesus, it means work wouldn't be an incentive if we got pid lump sum. bro divide $34 trillion among 45 million blacks we would be millionaires. Many of us would quit our jobs, some of us would stay but given that many of us aren't taught how to manage money economic analysts would suspect many of us would spend, spend, spend. The economy would go up but by the first couple years a part of us will be broke.

You: Why are you ignoring the still present reality of modern discrimination and racism against ADOS to make this argument?

I'm not arguing anything just stating facts. We as a community don't manage money well. Whih is why our money leavees our community faster than any other community because we don't circulate it in our own businesses.

You: Once again, I have my own idea's but this is not an issue that would prevent this legislation from being written and argued and voted on. These questions are for after its voted on.

Ok.


You: A general payment is preferred. I don't trust white people's decision on where the money should go. They already have control of the money reparations gives us that control.

ADOS doesn't have a legal plan how to get this passed. Sure, There are presently presenting this in the U.S. Senate, plus they want Congress to pass it but it will not pass. You don't trust white folk? Okay but guarantee if the gov't is paying they'll be distributing funds. I don't trust pastors like Sharpton and Jackson to lead the efforts. I don't trust no religious group (even though I'm Muslim), or organization that has bias to distribute anything because of the potential of being corrupted. However this isn't hppening anyway no matter how much we want.

At the end of the day throwing money at me will not erase the pain and torture of my early ancestors. When supporters of reparations talk, all I hear is "pay me my money." No consideration of our ancestors. No consideration of Redlining, Reconstruction, Jim Crow. It is all about the self and we will be corrupted.

[GreenJagWar]

It's because I love to reason. I am a philosopher for sure.

EXACTLY as you say, "...it hasn't..." so then the reasoning is invalid. What argument did the Japanese American's use to defend the claim that reparations for them will cause others to ask for reparations too?

Alt: You say others will use our claim to build their claim. Ok, so I'm using Japanese Americans achieved claim to open our claim.

I'm sorry you thought I was questioning your 'Blackness', I thought the question was clear...I said which are you FIRST. I didn't ask if you were Black.

white people must pay reparations to correct the injustices that their ancestor begun and they benefit from; ADOS have the right to use that money and those benefits for anything they want within legal bounds.

How did the US answer this question for the Japanese Americans? Did they choose and tell the Japanese Americans that they had to buy only certain items or at certain places? Did they spend the money wisely?

white supremacists always view Black people as less than, as unable to handle nouns. I don't accept that anyone has the right to judge or justify reparations on what an ADOS person will do with the money, the money and benefits have already been paid for. I especially don't accept white people having any say in it.

As for who gets reparations: You said you are Black, have you taken a DNA test to find out your ancestry?

I am biracial and I know where in Africa my bloodline comes from. Also, the majority of African people didn't begin to be accepted until the beginning of the 19th century so, the blood would be noticeably different. I don't see this as a problem that stops the claim for most ADOS in either event. Let's argue about this after its passed.

At the end of the day you don't have to take the check. So, if it bothers you that much let America keep your share.

200 years Black people were slaves and Black people with short term thinking thought it would last forever, but they were wrong. I think you are too.

I should mention that I am not approaching this as if reparations will solve all our problems. That's not possible. There will still be necessary actions to get ADOS to equality. So, I don't place all hope in reparations, but I do believe they are needed.

[Yautja]

You: What argument did the Japanese American's use to defend the claim that reparations for them will cause others to ask for reparations too?


Maybe because of this https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...or-reparations

You: I said which are you FIRST. I didn't ask if you were Black.

My mother once said I don't have to do anything except two things stay black and die....So naturally, I'm black first

You: white people must pay reparations to correct the injustices that their ancestors begun and they benefit from; ADOS have the right to use that money and those benefits for anything they want within legal bounds.

Yes. I agree... I want white people to make stuff equal. Rebuild Black Wallstreet. Cancel my student loan debt. Put $10 million in my Wells Fargo checking account. Apologize for slavery and make Critical Race Theory an obligated curriculum. But I'm nothing more than an idealist.

You: How did the US answer this question for the Japanese Americans? Did they choose and tell the Japanese Americans that they had to buy only certain items or at certain places? Did they spend the money wisely?


See the above link...

You: white supremacists always view Black people as less than, as unable to handle nouns. I don't accept that anyone has the right to judge or justify reparations on what an ADOS person will do with the money, the money and benefits have already been paid for. I especially don't accept white people having any say in it.

You still haven't created a valid argument for reparations. If you're a lawyer how would you convince a bunch of "white folks" to give us money?

You: As for who gets reparations: You said you are Black, have you taken a DNA test to find out your ancestry?

Nope, but I plan on doing it this fall...Have you?

You: At the end of the day you don't have to take the check. So, if it bothers you that much let America keep your share.

The problem with folks like yourself, you think throwing money at someone solves an issue. Do you think giving you tens of millions of dollars will keep whites folks from calling you a N*****a? Will that erase and bring back Emmitt Till, Malcolm X, MLK, or any influential black person in our history? No. You'll just be a rich N*******a. The United States robbed us of our heritage, turned some Africans against us.


You:200 years Black people were slaves and Black people with short term thinking thought it would last forever, but they were wrong. I think you are too.

You have yet to prove your case though.

You:

• • I should mention that I am not approaching this as if reparations will solve all our problems. That's not possible. There will still be necessary actions to get ADOS to equality. So, I don't place all hope in reparations, but I do believe they are needed.

Ok prove your case...You need to argue why. Since you're a philosopher you need to deductively prove your case.